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since: 19 Jan 2005

Can't we all just get along? Is Vista really the pile of suck people think it is?

posted Fri 29 Aug 08

By now pretty much everyone has heard of the Mojave experiment. This is the now-infamous experiment where Microsoft gathered a bunch of people and told them they would be given a preview of the new upcoming OS called "Mojave". These people were given a guided tour (they weren't allowed to touch it themselves) and eventually told that their regular coffee had been secretly replaced with Folgers, er... that the OS was actually Vista!

If that wasn't enough, we now hear that Jerry Seinfeld is going to be given the sum of $10 million to appear in an upcoming set of commercials designed to take back Microsoft's good name and hopefully do some damage control against the negative public opinion that the Mac vs. PC ads have been spreading.

So what's really going on here? Well, what's going on is that I don't think people are giving enough credit to the Mac vs. PC ads. Those ads have created Vista-haters out of people that have never seen or touched the OS. Their picture of the OS is a big, bulky, bloatware-filled, slow, randomly freezing, un-hip, behind-the-times OS that does everything Leopard does, but in a slower, more ugly, untrendy way. People are more than happy to maintain that impression because it has become fashionable to bash Vista.

Back in the day, when I was full of ideals about how Linux was going to take over the world and that me running 3 Linux boxes in my college dorm was an omen for the future ... it was fashionable to bash Microsoft. Everybody did it. Anti-Microsoft sentiment was as common in casual conversation as the old "Yeah, that's what she said...." quip.

But here I am now, having either contributed to or solo written 13 books all on various aspects of the .NET Framework, and I've spoken at Apple's WWDC twice. Gone are my ideals about what Linux will do for the world, replaced with the calm practicality of knowing what a good operating system is, and why.

So the real question remains, Is Vista really as big a piece of crap as everyone says it is? The quick answer is no, of course not. But there's more to it than that. To see the reason for Vista's languishing public opinion, you need to go back in time several (4, I think) years, back to the time of Longhorn. It was a euphoric time when we were all excited about what was to come. Security in the OS would be a priority, allowing users to feel secure and making apps play nice with security. In addition, the device driver model was changing - device drivers would no longer be a ripe, juicy source of hacking back door entry points, nor would they be a way to crash unrelated apps because an ancillary driver failed. Security and device drivers were going to change everything... and that would require WORK.

Let me bottom line it. App developers were given 3+ years of notice that Vista was going to make apps run in a more secure fashion, so we had to get of our asses and start integration testing with Vista to make sure our shit would still float. Then you've got all the hardware manufacturers who were told something like 300 years (well, not quite that long, but you get the idea) in advance that Vista drivers aren't the same as XP drivers, so get off your ass, get on board, and make your drivers work for Vista.

Was this too much to ask? Maybe, but change requires effort, and it is no more than Apple asks when it makes a drastic rev to one of it's devices. Apple is notorious for making huge breaking changes between OS revisions, and people bitch and moan but they deal with it because they know the change makes the environment better for everyone.

Except here's the thing: we didn't deal with it. Hardware manufacturers bitched, moaned, and didn't roll new drivers. Application developers took the lazy approach and said, "Screw it, my shit still works on XP, so it should be fine on Vista. After all, Vista still runs the XP SP2 kernel right??"

So now we've got a perfect storm brewing, but it's not complete yet. The final piece of the puzzle is assinine marketing. The ridiculous number of editions of Vista, coupled with the inability for any sales person in any retail shop to properly recommend minimum system requirements, and the lawsuit-inspiring "Vista ready" logo crap. NOW you've got a perfect storm:

  • Developers (not all, but a lot) not on board and resting on their laurels, so nobody knows if their stuff is going to work on Vista when it comes out.
  • Hardware manufacturers creating half-assed Vista drivers or simply not creating them at all
  • Marketing making damn sure that nobody was expecting anything remotely close to what they got when it came time to use Vista.
  • Vista was obviously rushed, so early adopters got punished even more so than regular users.

Just about every problem I have had with Vista itself (as opposed to an individual application) has stemmed from device drivers. When Vista crashes (which it hasn't done, at all, in the last several months) it's usually because of a device driver, and then it's usually because of my graphics card drivers. The drivers for certain mobile graphics cards are notorious for making Vista nearly unusable (tried a Lenovo T60p lately running Vista??)

So here's the moral of the story (I know, took me long enough to get here, right?): Vista is actually a damn fine Operating System. I love it. The new Aero GUI is great, and a great deal of the GUI changes have made it easier to get things done than they used to be. First and foremost, I'm a .NET developer and there is no better OS playground for .NET developers than Vista. Yes, there are annoyances here and there, and silly shit like totally random time estimates when recycling items in my bin, but by and large, Vista is great. If you ended up with an underpowered system because of the marketing blunders, Vista will beat your machine into submission. That's not Vista's fault, that's 100% of the fault of people who didn't have the balls to come out clean and say "You need 2GB RAM and a 512MB video card for Vista to feel as good as it should feel". And you should have a 7200RPM drive if you're on a laptop, and ... you get the idea.

Personally I hope the new marketing campaign works and helps the public opinion related to Vista and Microsoft. However, I'm skeptical because marketing is largely to blame for the negative opinion that exists about Vista right now and I don't think blindly throwing money at marketing people and hoping something sticks is going to fix the problem.

 

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1. Kevin Hoffman left...
Fri 29 Aug 08 9:34 am

Just to clarify my long-windedness: Vista has a bad reputation. Part of it is earned, part if is caused by manufacturer and software developer slow adoption rate, and part of it is caused by negative ad campaigns. Regardless of all those, I love Vista and like it more than XP.


2. James Gregurich left...
Fri 29 Aug 08 4:23 pm

good analysis in general. However, I'd point out that part of the problem with Vista is the security system is poorly done. installing Parallels Tools shouldn't require 5 or 6 dialogs asking me if I allow installation of unsigned drivers. It should require one for the whole installer. Asking me over and over again if I will allow an application to run was dumb. It should only ask once.

I will say this about Aero. Apple was running CoreGraphics and Aqua on 500 MHz PowerPC Macs. I don't know why the requirements are so high, but they didn't do a good job on that front.

I think MS botched the whole design of Vista. Vista should have been a complete rewrite done correctly that fixed all their legacy problems and ran XP apps in a compatibility container app as Apple didn't with Classic.app running MacOS 9. MS took the Approach apple tried with Copland and it bombed for them too.


3. Alex Hoffman left...
Fri 29 Aug 08 6:13 pm

I have a high spec (4gb 10k-rpm) system, and it seems to now work about half as fast as when Vista was first installed. For me, the problem is that Vista is *slow* and keeps getting slower. I can logoff and re-login four times on my Mac, in the same time as it takes for me to do the same thing once on Vista.

That's why I (and I believe others) remain unimpressed.


4. Y-aji left...
Sat 30 Aug 08 12:22 pm

What?!

  • I wont disagree that driver people are partially at fault, but nevertheless.. I work on computers every day and have been for over 10 years, I have used Vista for over a year. It sucks on every PC that is within reasonable price. Could it be fixed?

Who knows, I recall Windows XP having similar problems. But my god, it got better after a year or two! I will suggest Windows XP/Mac/Linux to everyone until Microsoft gets their shit together.

And is Vista bloated? Give this a shot.. Try removing as many extra programs on the start bar as you can.. You used to bring it down to about 6 programs, easily.. I kept under 10 programs on it along with a games folder and a programming folder.. I want to see very little when I use my computer.. I dont want a list of cool new shit from Microsoft.. I want to put my own stuff on it.

Not to mention that fucking Aero theme.. Oh yes, the Aero theme.. My PC choked like an old taurus with 4 fat guys in the passanger seats until I took that off.. "Wow, cool, it's all reflecty and transparent!" can only be said for just so long before you have to get over it and turn it off so that you can get back to using your computer, due to it utilizing an ungodly extra amount of my computer..

Games do not work at all with Window's revolutionary "Use all your fucking memory all the time" feature. Cool.. it caches your the calculator in memory for faster opening.. I dont care, I want to play my game without paying more money on hardware because my memory is using the wrong thing.. or use adobe photoshop... or work with blender... etc etc.. It all runs slow.. I thought I needed a pc upgrade while using Vista the whole time, but the day I switched back to a Windows XP environment, they played smoothly and beautifully.

What about business solutions? Vista is in no way to be useful for businesses.. It was like a year in and still Novell couldn't program around their shitty code.. I guess people with non-microsoft networks should just give up and spend that extra 1,000,000 dollars on ten new servers with the upcoming Windows Server 7 or whatever they're calling it (It isn't even completely compatible with Server 2003!).. I hope it doesn't choke up servers like Vista chokes up the client-side. Not to mention I used the "business" edition of Vista for about as much time as the non-business edition and had just as much trouble with a bunch of slowdown problems.

I have a dual core processor, 2 gb of memory, 256mb 8800gt, etc etc etc, and it runs like shit. Why? I'm pretty sure I had over the recommended amount of everything.. I'm sure it has nothing to do with Vista being bloated.. Seemed odd though that when I took it off, everything ran very well.. Most of the problems I see on people's BRAND NEW computers is due to Vista eating all their processor on day one.

Lenovo, Dell, HP, ASUS, Toshiba, Sony have all fallen the this great monster of an OS.. I have seen a 3,000 dollar gaming pc with parts that I will never be able to afford in my entire life fall to this crappy operating system.

When I make a website, I dont say (though I would like to) "Fuck IE users.. particularly IE6.. I'm only going to program for Firefox/Opera/Safari. And they HAVE to stay up to date, or they wont be able to see my stuff" I work with all my clients to ensure that it is working correctly all the time (or as best as I can) so that I keep ALL of my clients. Not just the ones that are compatible with what I want. That's how microsoft got so popular in the first place, everything was built on it as it was easier to code around, so it was compatible with all the most important software which attracted users.

I always go forward with technology.. I force myself to use the new thing to make sure I dont fall behind with technology.. But if the current state of Vista is being considered technological advancement, then I guess I'm screwed.

An operating system is supposed to be transparent to the user. A way to connect everything else together. I dont use windows because it looks cool.. I use it because it's compatible with all MY programs, or at least it used to be.

Cheers! Keith


5. xc1024 left...
Mon 01 Sep 08 1:29 pm

for me vista is (almost) total sh*t. I hate it!! Aero is to heavy for my computer that was bought in January. its constant disabling the hibernation is making me mad. I generally prefer XP, mainly because of it low hardware use.

but i will like vista if: - they will give a "pause" button to the copying window (the 1 now is a. perfect) - they will make Aero interface less hardware-consuming - they will STOP disabling hibernation - they will finally let change the boot screen WITHOUT using the application for $50 - and make it work faster


6. Hans left...
Mon 01 Sep 08 2:20 pm

I'm sorry to say this, but Vista being as it is is the fault of Microsoft in genreal. I was in the beta-test for Longhorn and have seen many bugs that stayed in from beta through RC all the way to release. And yes, developers should have drivers ready, but how can they if they don't get the right specifics? Just wiggle it? The only thing to do is go with what you know and that did produce poor work. Until now, the kernel is not designed to actually work with 3rd party drivers, so why blame developers if they can't get it to work? It's like selling a car with a welded-shut bonnet so you can't put in a new battery without damaging the car. Why blame the battery-manufacturer? And don't forget that even Microsoft itself could get Livecare to work properly. Plus the argument that Vista just needs a few gigs of RAM, half a gig of Graphic Memory and a huge cpu (certainly at releasedate) and it will run fine. Most people didn't have those pc's before Vista came out, so you won't see them upgrade from XP. Sure they won't tell their friends it's because of their old computer, it's more fashionable to blame it on Vista.

Microsoft made a mistake with Vista and that was to be so arrogant that the consumer would buy just any OS from them just because it was all they knew. You're right about the Vista-Ready-stickers (I hate computer stickers in general) they mislead a lot of people and thus cost them a lot of goodwill. Also a problem is that XP still works fine. Sure, in their efforts to push Vista we don't expect Microsoft to bring out anymore servicepacks for XP, but untill it's completely obsolete most people will stick with it.

Maybe Vista isn't complete crap, but it also isn't the lean mean, give-you-a-faster-working-machine everyone was counting on. It was disappointing and, to tell you the truth, we all saw it coming.


7. Kevin Hoffman left...
Tue 02 Sep 08 5:31 am

That's my point exactly. Disabled hibernation is a hardware mismatch/driver failure problem. Vista isn't (obviously) supposed to be doing that. This is something you should be complaining about to your hardware provider, the people who should be testing this crap before they sell the device to users.


8. David Seruyange left...
Tue 02 Sep 08 10:59 am :: http://metadeveloper.blogspot.com

I used Vista for a few months and found no compelling reason to keep it around when I had to switch back to my old XP machine. If anything I appreciated not having the Cancel or Allow prompt ad nauseum. I made sure I purchased a laptop before June when one would have to buy a "downgrade license" to use XP.


9. Ron left...
Thu 04 Sep 08 10:18 pm

I respect your opinion on this matter, and I understand that people who like Vista are probably pretty frustrated with the current perception.

But....

You know, a LOT of the people bashing are USING it. There are always people who hold opinions in ignorance, and yeah, it's frustrating when they spread that ignorance. But if Windows were rare, and people hardly ever got to lay hands on it, that would be one thing... But that's not the true situation. Much of the bad vibes related to Vista is coming from people with hands-on frustration (and I'm one of them).

The Mojave experiment was silly and proved nothing. EVEN if the underlying idea is valid (that Vista isn't being given a fair look), this demonstration was b.s. I've seen a ton of tech demos over the year, where some hyper-expensive piece of medical software was shown, and it was so unbelievably cool and powerful you wondered how you ever worked without it. Then you come back after it's installed and ask the users: they're miserable because it's a total POS. The designers had a workflow they liked, and they showed it, and it looked cool. But if your workflow deviates from the straight-and-narrow at all, it takes twenty times longer to do your work than if you'd chiseled the note on a stone tablet.

The people hate the software. The "Medical Mojave" demo had really looked brilliant. If you showed us a demo again, we'd probably become enthralled all over again. Was the bad opinion wrong? No. Are they getting the most they can from the software? No. But their bad opinion still isn't wrong.

And consider the other obvious problem with the Mojave experiment. Say they'd demonstrated Mac OS X to these people. "Here's the next Windows, what do you think?" Or let them compare Vista and OS X and say "We're trying to decide which will be the next Windows." Have people show off both OSes.

Come to think of it, what if you'd gotten these people together and had an expert show them cool stuff they could do with XP? Likely as not, they'd have been blown away. A person who is both an expert and a showman can always impress you with what he can do with a computer, and make you wanna do that, too.

But it doesn't mean people are wrong about disliking Vista.

I have no quarrel with people who use Vista and like it. But honestly, Vista's earned a lot of its bad rap. It has.

*shrugs*

(But on a different note, thanks for the top-notch blogs)


10. Brodie left...
Sun 07 Sep 08 12:33 pm

I have a Mac and a PC. The Macbook runs leopard and the PC runs Vista. And you know what? I love them both. The key with Vista in my experience, though, is to remember that PC manufacturers are the devil.

Dell is the devil. HP is the devil. Hardware manufacturers love to install their OEM and trial software. All of this, of course, loads up when Windows starts. The solution? A fresh install of Vista and the most updated drivers around (even, sometimes, open source solutions (my soundcard manufacturer didn't release a Vista specific driver for over a year after Vista's release. The sound driver, though, was killing my PC. Upside, a group of random college kids wrote a new driver because they had the same issue. Sound worked fine after that)).

Suddenly my PC was beautiful. It reboots in under a minute and my games and stats problems (grad student working research) are running smoother than ever.

Microsoft, I think, did a pretty good job with Vista. The reason apple can claim anything is because they write their own drivers. The minute they're forced to open up their OS to other manufacturers they too will have the same problems.


11. zach left...
Sun 07 Sep 08 8:29 pm :: http://www.zacharymatthew.net

I am enjoying this short span of time in which I have brand new hardware, running Vista x64, and I can look down my nose at everyone scrapping with problems with their 1 GB of RAM or Pentium IV. I don't even have a paging file anymore and that tastes like a blue raspberry blow-pop.

Even the 32/64 bit incompatibility hasn't touch me; I've had wonderful luck with Microsoft Virtual PC 2007 and my own installation of XP. Yeah, XP in a little window (mainly for IE6 testing, but still). That's the gum inside the sucker.

It seems quite obvious that Vista is not the next major Windows release. But, just because the release was botched doesn't mean some of us don't adore it. Having carved out room on my credit card for a new PC, I intend to enjoy every moment of this. "It's a beaut, Clark, it's a beaut!"


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