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since: 19 Jan 2005

An experience with the Leopard beta

posted Mon 26 Mar 07

Something rather remarkable happened to me the other day. I was writing some code (Objective-C 2.0, Garbage Collected, on Leopard). I can't divulge the details of exactly what I was working on because the details of which are still under the NDA.

Basically I had written some code that converted some previously published Cocoa samples to take advantage of some new stuff that you can find in Leopard. My application was behaving really erratically and I was getting periodic crashes in random spots. Being a Cocoa newbie, I naturally assumed that I was doing something ridiculous and stupid, so I spent a couple more hours poking around before I gave up on it. Then, I sent an e-mail to someone at Apple containing my sample code. I humbly asked that he take a quick 30 seconds to verify that I wasn't doing something completely moronic with my code.

More than that, this person at Apple then had a developer take a look at the code. They ran my code, and reproduced the instability I was experiencing, and tracked it down to something that is most likely corrected in the next seed of Leopard. In short, they actually listened to me. More importantly, they took me seriously. Here I am, Joe Shmoe Cocoa Newbie, that has absolutely no business asking people at Apple to waste their time on me, and they went out of their way to not only verify that my code wasn't at fault, but also reproduced the instability, told me what might be causing it, and even sent my project back with a few tweaks and optimizations.

Any of you reading this who have been inside Microsoft betas know that the experience is quite radically different. There is a faceless "submit" button to which you can send your bug reports, but in all my years of testing Microsoft products, I have never received a reply to any of the bugs I've submitted, let alone confirmation that the issue was truly an issue and not a mistake on my part.

I realize that Apple is a significantly smaller company than Microsoft, so they are more able to respond in a one-on-one fashion. However, something tells me that if Apple were twice as big, they'd have twice as many people in this position to keep the responses available to Apple developers.

Anyway, I was so pleased with the experience that I felt compelled to write this post as a tip of the hat to the people at Apple who went out of their way to assist a Cocoa newbie in diagnosing a problem that could have been the result of my own idiocy and ultimately had nothing to do with Leopard.

And to think just last week I was complaining that all semblance of decent customer service had become as extinct as the dinosaurs. Apparently there are a few traces of good customer service left.

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1. Cary left...
Mon 26 Mar 07 2:52 pm

Not to diminish your account, but I have seen cases of Microsoft giving replies to bug submissions, and even providing confirmation if the bug has been addressed in a later build. But feedback tends to be faster for testers involved in the newsgroups set up for that purpose, because multiple testers can often validate and provide more information about an issue for the developers to look at.


2. Kevin Hoffman left...
Mon 26 Mar 07 2:55 pm

I'm certainly not claiming that MS never responds to bugs. I am saying that in my experience, and the experience of all those I have spoken to who beta test, there is a general feeling as though you just submitted a bug report into a vacuum and it is gone forever. What impressed me most about this experience was that I actually had a meaningful conversation with Apple about the issue, they ran my code and reproduced my issues, without ever once calling me a crackpot or accusing me of wasting their time. It gave me the impression that Apple felt as though my time, feedback, and opinion were important... I'm not used to feeling that way :)


3. Gareth left...
Mon 26 Mar 07 7:18 pm :: http://www.colourmecocoa.com

Reading this makes me smile. It's little things like this that turn arverage joe schmoe noobies into evangalists for a product.

Apple knows that without developers, they have to do more work themselves to promote and sell their platform.

As an aside... it's really annoying when you click the check boxes above to create posting accounts that it blanks out the name and email fields.


4. Jussi left...
Mon 26 Mar 07 7:25 pm

I am not trying to get anything out of your experience, but just a warning word: do not get too fond with that. The Apple I know is similar vacuum for bug reports as you described Microsof. I hope Apple have changed for the better, but I would not bet on it :)


5. patrick left...
Tue 27 Mar 07 4:28 am

"Then, I sent an e-mail to someone at Apple "

That's where you went wrong ;-) Had you followed the official route (bugreport.apple.com) your experience would have been very Microsoft indeed. Reporting bugs to Apple is very much a black box experience. True, sometimes you receive feedback, but more often you don't. I have 'open' bugs listed going back years.

The worst thing (in my view) is that it isn't possible to search for reported bugs, which means that you're likely to waste time by submitting a 'duplicate' report. This always makes me feel a little stupid.

Very recently the look of bugreporter has been upgraded. Let's hope its functionality receives an upgrade too...


6. John C. Randolph left...
Tue 27 Mar 07 11:14 am

Patrick,

Submitting a bug that turns out to be a duplicate is not a waste of time. Bugs are prioritized according to a number of factors, and one of those factors is how many people are affected by them. A bug with a hundred duplicates is more important than a bug with no dups.

Also, each duplicate is likely to contain information that can help with diagnosis of the problem.

-jcr


7. Ed left...
Tue 27 Mar 07 12:18 pm :: http://www.ejstembler.com

Maybe it's because I'm a certified Microsoft Partner, but Microsoft has replied to all of my e-mails. They even had a representative work closely with me when I beta'ed One Care on Vista for them. In fact, I know partners have an account manager assigned to them as well; whom ofter calls to check in. In the course of a week I can get as many as 3 calls from someone at Microsoft. I know they also give 5 free programming support incidents to partners too.


8. Kevin Hoffman left...
Tue 27 Mar 07 12:20 pm

You have to pay money, and your company has to pass requirements, to be a certified partner. Heck, you have to pay $110 to take the test just to become a Certified Professional (MCP) with Microsoft :) So, while it may be great if you work for a company (or are a company) that is Gold Certified (I used to work for such a company), the rest of us have to deal with less service than that.


9. George Mckinlay left...
Tue 27 Mar 07 3:15 pm

That Apple is a significantly smaller company and so can respond one on one is probably an erroneous assumption. I'd argue the opposite--Apple has to cover many more bases to ship a well rounded Operating System and IDE, which should make the one-on-one less likely event... However, I think Apple is a very strategic (effective) in how it uses its scarce people power and that is why it is able to surprise on many levels. BTW I enjoy reading your blog.


10. dniq left...
Mon 02 Apr 07 5:21 pm

I had submitted quite a bunch of bug reports to Apple regarding previous versions of Mac OS X and have always had a very good response from Apple: they would ask additional questions, trying to clarify the issue, and then would always send me an e-mail saying that there's an update available and asking if I'm still experiensing the same issue with the update or not.


11. Ari Ukkonen left...
Mon 02 Apr 07 10:10 pm

Companies the size of MSFT are often bogged down with levels of bureaucracy and onerous procedures. You could say that they are a victim of their own success.

I hope that Apple maintains a lean team as they grown in market share so they don't fall into the same trap. I've never received a response MSFT for any bugs I filed during the XP beta but I did get a personal e-mail from the head of user experience of Visual studio.net and some of my suggestions made it into VS IIRC in later revisions. It stemmed from a comment I had left on the Office 2007 team blog.


12. Ryan left...
Thu 05 Apr 07 2:24 am

I've submitted around 150 bugs to Apple since I became a professional software developer. I work for a fairly large Mac software developer, and we try to work with Apple when we can. But even with our multiple paid-develoepr Apple Developer accounts, I rarely get a reply from Apple about my reported bugs. I've even reported kernel panics to Apple that don't get more than a form letter reply. Sometimes this black box can be extremely frustrating. The last bug I reported to Apple was quite serious, and required hundreds of lines of code in our product to work around. I reported it to Apple before Tiger shipped, but for whatever reason they decided not to fix it it in Tiger. Fine. But now the bug has been fixed in Leopard, and nobody told me how it was fixed. I just got a form letter notification that the bug has been marked fixed. So now I need to play hide and seek to determine how Apple fixed the bug, and how their bug fix will affect our product's workaround for the bug. Fun stuff as you can imagine.


13. FrankEEE left...
Thu 12 Apr 07 4:18 am

I used to work for Apple (GER/A/CH) a few years back at ER and since I am not 'silenced' by any form of contractual secrecy (not that it would matter in this case at all, but nevertheless) at this time, I would like to tell visitors to this blog:

The company Apple Computer Inc(now only Inc) is one of the most valuable companies to work for considering the colleagues you get there. Most of the Apple staff (and I am talking most and do not wish to mention areas like HR, Finance or PR - they are some weird folks I will just neva understand, regradless of the company) are first absolute Evangelists (u have mac problem - they'll congregate and have it worked out for you over the course of a work's week). Apart from that everyone there will do whatever it takes to make you happy with your Mac - even within the office and even if you just started off and have to deal with a beige G3/266.

Well, back to the roots: I never had to deal with anyone developer within Apple. But let me assure everyone: FOLKS AT APPLE ARE (for the most part) UNREAL! In the literal sense.

I am feeling privileged to having had the opportunity to work for this comp. And I'd still be there if I didn't have to move to the other side of the world because of .... private!

So I can at least confirm: Apple staff is not your every day staff!!!


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