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since: 19 Jan 2005

Life with Vista - Is this dogfood really for the dogs?

posted Sun 10 Dec 06

I'm an absolute freak when it comes to .NET technologies. My blog is called the ".NET Addict", so it should be pretty obvious that the day Vista's RTM build came out, I downloaded it and installed it on every Vista-capable machine I had in my possession. I've been using Vista for several weeks now and I've come to a couple of conclusions that I think might startle and shock some of you.

  1. Vista is not ready for primetime. By that I mean that Vista still feels like a beta. That's right. It has so many compatibility problems with existing applications that running anything other than stuff from Microsoft that specifically says "for Vista Build XXXX" makes me feel like I'm taking my life into my own hands.
    1. Games - don't even get me started. Among the games that I have tried on 3 different machines that don't work are: EverQuest 2 (seems to have a Core 2 Duo problem, too), World of Warcraft, City of Heroes/Villains, and The Sims. Take my words with a grain of salt because I'm a developer and I don't run stuff on a pristine factory default machine - your mileage may vary.
    2. Visual Studio 2005 - I can't find the words to express the irony involved in the fact that Visual Studio 2005 has known and published compatibility problems with Windows Vista. To me that would be like GM putting out a new truck that won't run OnStar...just plain stupid.
    3. Virtual PC - worthless. Don't even attempt on Vista.
    4. VMWare - this actually works quite well and I'm really pleased with the results. I'm lovin' the VMware.
  2. The drivers that come with Vista are actually really good. Case in point : I downloaded ATI drivers from ATI that say they are designed for Windows Vista, and have a driver date 2 months newer than Microsoft's. The drivers I installed from ATI completely hosed my system and I could barely see anything. I had to boot into protected mode (or whatever Vista calls it where I get back to SVGA 800x600) and roll back to the previous driver.

Vista itself, and by that I mean the core activities of sitting your machine idle while you browse websites or watch news feeds scroll by below your analog clock in the sidebar - runs remarkably well and the user experience is far superior to that of Windows XP. Its not because of glass, its just because things seem to flow a little more smoothly and seem to be placed a little more logically. The Vista design rule of "progressive revalation" where tedious information is hidden unless you ask for it makes for a cleaner UX any day of the week.

That said, here's the bad news. Vista seems to be optimized really well (at this point, I don't know about the manufacturer-specific builds coming out in January) for doing nothing more than web surfing and playing with sidebar gadgets and doing multimedia stuff with media center and the new media player. If you're looking to use existing applications, you may run into hideous, workflow-breaking compatibility issues. If you're looking to game, check with the game manufacturer and make sure they specifically, explicitly, undoubtedly support Windows Vista on towers and laptops before you blow away that XP gaming rig of yours.

There's nothing wrong with optimizing an OS for presentation value - there is an entire demographic of people out there who do nothing but surf, check mail, play solitaire, etc. The ultra-casual users of computers like my mother, grandmother, and people who generally have little interest in technology (like my father). Here's the rub - that demographic of people is NOT the demographic of people who want to spend money to upgrade their hardware so they can run Vista with Glass. For them, on their casual-user hardware, Vista will look like crap - and if they are looking to upgrade, they can get a Mac mini or iMac cheaper than they can get Vista-ready hardware from Dell.

Bottom line is that, in my opinion, unless you are planning on doing serious .NET Framework 3.0 (WPF, WCF, WF) programming then there is no compelling reason to upgrade to Vista. Put Vista on a Virtual machine and forget about it or wait until the compatiiblity issues are a thing of the past. For me, I'm actually at the point where I'm trying to figure out how to put XP back on the hardware I've already upgraded to Vista in a dual-boot scenario. Thats a first for me. I've never before felt compelled to dual-boot the previous version of a Microsoft OS, except for when I used to keep DOS 6.22 floppies around in case I needed to boot into DPMI out of Windows 95 to play Doom or run some memory-sucking Borland apps I was coding. How sad is that?

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1. Craig left...
Sun 10 Dec 06 11:17 am

Ya agreed, I still cannot believe VS2005 doesn't work and what worries me is the SP1 Beta doesn't fix the Vista/VS problems either .... go Microsoft -

I've had VPC2007 running fine, just lacking major features as usual - I did that because I was having lots of vmware problems, still need to run vmware but new vms are in VPC now.

Ever tried parallels .... I couldn't get the stupid network running but it seemed pretty fast.

-c


2. Paul Mendoza left...
Sun 10 Dec 06 12:57 pm :: http://www.crazysalsadancer.com/

I tried the second beta and was let down with the games that wouldn't work on it. I need to try the latest version of Vista soon but it sounds like those issues still haven't been correct. I'll wait for 6 months or so to get Vista. Hopefully by then they'll have a lot of the issues corrected.


3. Tony Young left...
Sun 10 Dec 06 7:42 pm

Now..........if you used Linux, you'd already be using a full Glass window (for the past year anyway), and it's free, and comes complete with all the software, no blue screens of death, firewalls built in, no need for extra antiviral software, the ability to run (if you absolutely MUST) WindowsXP in a VM setup, full driver compatability, easy installation, 64 bit coding etc. etc....and, wait for it, Beagle.........the search files software that Microsoft has already deleted from Vista........Sure, games might be a problem too, but then I guess Windows has to be better in some areas, even if it IS playing games. But don't take my word for it. Try Linux yourselves.


4. Nohab left...
Sun 10 Dec 06 7:43 pm

Well, no wonder, that Texas Instruments pushed back the upgrade for another two years.

See here: http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=36259

Adding in your problems and bugs reported elsewhere, I 'll wait for Vista SP1 or SP2.


5. No Tellin left...
Sun 10 Dec 06 9:55 pm

Any business that upgrades to Vista now is run by a pack of PHB idiots. Wait, that's redundant.

Something not mentioned by most columnists / bloggers et al when talking about compatibility issues with Vista is 3rd party vendor support. For example: I help support a small 250 PC shop. We run quite a bit of technology driven {lab equipment and analysis} software. We lose 3rd party vendor support if we run this software equipment on any vendor non certified version of MS OS. I still have equipment running Win2K SP4 and XP SP1 because that's what the vendor's software is certified and works with. Some of this software is so complex I can't even run Windows Updates on the PCs it's installed on.

If I have to worry about XP updates and patches breaking critical company applications, Vista is not an option and will not be an option tomorrow or even the next two years. It's as simple as that.

We might start looking at Vista for less critical users _after_ SP1 comes out. Maybe.


6. Kurt left...
Sun 10 Dec 06 11:22 pm

"Put Vista on a Virtual machine..."

Ahh, but Vista's lovely license (a la 1984) precludes running it on a VM. I think I'll take the advice in part of the latter half of that sentence, and simply forget about it.


7. Kevin Hoffman left...
Mon 11 Dec 06 8:23 am

Actually, you can run anything above Vista Home regular edition in a VM. The license only prohibits you running the "cheap" commodity version of Vista in a VM. You can run Vista Ultimate within a VM just fine...and if you're a developer with an MSDN subscription and you're writing .NET 3.0 code - that may be the way to go since Vista Ultimate is so hideously overpriced.


8. Craig left...
Mon 11 Dec 06 2:16 pm

can I just say I HATE VISTA right now, I FREAKING HATE IT - I keep loosing PART of my network connection ... yes part, everything still works - chat - mail but not browsing, in either IE or Firefox ... just get connection reset crap. Its just started this BS in the last week and requires constant rebooting. and STILL no feedback links from MS to report BUGS .. great

yippy


9. Kevin Hoffman left...
Mon 11 Dec 06 2:23 pm

I actually find Vista's wireless networking infrastructure to be more informative than XPs. When my ISP's DNS becomes unavailable, I get an indication that I am still connected to my WiFi router (which I am), but I also see that the connection is "local only", meaning that it can't go beyond the local subnet - which I find quite handy information.

That said, if you breathe wrong on the network, it breaks so hard you have to reboot Vista. Three cheers for the next generation in innovative, powerful Operating Systems... (that's sarcasm, btw) :)


10. ... left...
Mon 18 Dec 06 4:46 pm

If Tony Young can leave linux fanboy-isms, then I can tell you all to ditch Windows and get a Mac.

But seriously, as a developer who pays the bill with Windows software, and a son who's parent's next computer will be a Dell, *it does not matter if Vista sucks*.

Companies like mine, and folks like my parents, will provide all the revenue MS needs.


11. Kevin Hoffman left...
Mon 18 Dec 06 5:19 pm

Totally agree. It makes no difference how good Vista is... I'll be preparing to spend the next couple of years developing in a Vista environment because thats just the way its going to be. Vista is here to stay for better or worse. Come January 1st, all new PCs are coming with Vista preloaded anyway, so a year from now Vista will be ubiquitous in the home consumer market.


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